Episode #907 – Chadwick Moore

Chadwick Moore is a special guest on The Paul Leslie Hour!

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It’s one of the most talked about books this year. Entitled simply: TUCKER, it is a biography of Tucker Carlson, the famed political commentator and media personality. And would you believe, we have the author of the book on this episode? Talk about timely!

We’re pleased to present an interview with Chadwick Moore. He is a journalist, public speaker, columnist and author.

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Chadwick Moore Interview Transcript

Chadwick Moore: Hey, how’s it going?

Paul Leslie: It’s going great. Is this Chadwick Moore whose birthday was this week?

Yes, it is. The very one and same.

The same one that was called a menace to the gay community and mankind in general?

That was my favorite compliment. I put it in the praise section of my first book.

It’s pretty brilliant! Well, Chadwick Moore, congratulations on the book. It’s really a wonderful, wonderful read. I finished it in just over 24 hours.

Oh, that’s great to hear. I’m glad you appreciated it. Thank you.

Yes, sir. So thank you so much for joining us. Chadwick Moore is the author of the book, simply entitled Tucker. Why did the world need a book about this man, Tucker Carlson, so often just called Tucker?

Well, I think that he has become, well, not only the most important and influential voice in American politics as a sub note to that, he’s become the conscience of the Republican Party in so many ways, and we saw that in Iowa. And also, there’s never been a sort of Tucker origin story written that wasn’t from a left wing liberal magazine that was attempting to smear him or be snarky or snide about him in some way. There hasn’t really been an honest exploration into who he is, where he came from, what he’s really like. 

And also, he’s just and I’ve known this as being a regular on his show and just sort of having known him a bit over the last six or seven years from being on his show that he is, yeah, I knew. He stood out in cable news not only because of his views and his talent, but because he’s someone that you would actually want to read a book about. I don’t think anyone want to read a biography, you know, Sean Hannity. Not to pick on Sean, but I’m sure some people would. But I think that he stood out in the fact that he was an interesting subject and a dynamic subject and someone who’s sort of rich and complicated in a way that a lot of people in TV fail to be.

I think you’re absolutely right. And something else that you bring out in the book is, you know, again, like you said, and we’re not picking on Sean Hannity, but people want to know about Tucker. And I wrote a review of the book, and I mentioned my neighbor Bill, and he would come over and he’d have his phone in his hand, and he would say, did you see what Tucker said? And always first name basis, almost like, here’s this guy that we know. How do you think Tucker Carlson has been able to develop that kind of relationship with his viewers?

It’s a great question, and I think it’s, you know, I don’t think it’s anything calculated or planned. I think it’s who he is as a guy. Tucker on air has a connection with his viewers in a way that no one else in cable ever had. And the only thing I can say is it’s a singular talent. Not only is he an extremely literary guy, which I hope to capture in the book, he’s a writer first more than he’s a TV performer or a news reader. And that’s how he was his entire life before he stumbled into the television business. But he’s that dual talent where he’s a writer, he’s talented, he’s sensitive, he’s articulate and thoughtful, but also just a great entertainer and a great communicator. 

And Tucker, off camera, has that connection with his audience that is just something that you’re either born with or not. But I even kind of remarked before that he’s one of those rare people that as energetic as he is on camera, he’s actually toned down from real life. He’s way more bonkers before the camera starts rolling, and then he kind of, like, tones it down a bit and starts the show and then goes into commercial and he’s back at it again, which is sort of the opposite, usually, for people who are on television. So the only answer I can have to that, really is it’s a singular talent to be able to have people feel that they have that personal connection with you every night as he did, and continues to, even though he’s no longer on TV.

I listened to your interview with Rose Unplugged, which I recommend everybody check that out. In the interview, you said that there was so much you had to leave out. And it’s interesting because the book, it has not only these great historic moments where Tucker Carlson was on the cover of magazines and newspapers, but then you managed to get all this minutiae, and sometimes the details are what’s so interesting. But what did you have to leave out? Because you said there was stuff I had to leave out. Was there anything that you think, I wish I could have worked that into the book?

Well, I think, you know when you’re no matter what, there’s going to be through the editing process, there’s going to be things like little moments, little jokes, little parts of the book that you just totally love. You remember them so well and you’re really proud of them, but they get cut for whatever reason, your editor convinces you that it just doesn’t fit right here, and we need to shorten this part and whatever. 

So you make those sacrifices. In writing school, we called it killing your babies, I think is a term that all writers know. I guess off the top of my head, I kind of can’t think of specifically, but there’s just so many details about his life. One of the challenges was there’s so much you could talk about, and it’s like, where do you narrow this down? Where do you try to keep the book engaging? Inevitably, there’s going to people who come out and say, well, you didn’t cover this. You didn’t talk about this or this, of course. But you have to understand, as any writer does that you make choices about what to include and what not to include. 

So this book could have been four times as long, but that wouldn’t have maybe been as much of a page turner. But there’s certainly when we first started out, I didn’t really know what approach I was going to take. And I first started to kind of go the more I was talking to my editor. Do we do like issues chapters? Do we have a chapter on UFOs, a chapter on J6, a chapter on COVID? And I started kind of going in that direction, but realized that that’s not what this book should be. It needs to be more focused on him as a man. 

If you want to know what he thinks of any of those issues, it’s out there. I mean, he was totally himself talking about that and continues to be. All those monologues are 100% him writing them completely. That entire A-block of the show. So I changed directions early on to make this more something that I hoped would have a longer shelf life and not something that would be so pertinent to today’s headlines.

Well, you very wisely did that because I was just thinking a rehash as I was reading the book of here are the things that Tucker Carlson thinks. Well, for those who watch the show, they’ve maybe watched that and rewatched it, you know, I think one of the other things that I liked about the book was you get to meet all these people in his world. We can judge a man in some ways by the company they keep, but then there’s your family as well. What do you think as far as the people that he chooses to surround himself with, the people he works with? What do you think about those people and what that says about Tucker Carlson?

Yeah, he’s very deliberate about the people he surrounds himself with for good reason. And his family is the most important thing in the world to him, his marriage to his beautiful wife Susie, who I got to know pretty well during this process. His father Dick Carlson, who is also a journalist and his greatest mentor. And I got to know Dick and his brother Buckley, and of course, his four children and his four Spaniels, who are who he loves more than anything and follow him everywhere and sleep on the bed with him every night and Susie. So it’s very, you know, that’s certainly he — his personal life and his relationships. 

And this extends to his team, his relationships with Justin, his executive producer, and many other producers on the show that’s so important to him. And it’s the reason why he’s able to, I think, maintain sanity and like a regular guy, like a human being. And he’s also able to have wonderful conversations about things that have nothing to do with politics. I think it’s part of the reason why he’s able to preserve a kind of rich inner life and spiritual life is because he has people around him who he trusts and who he can be himself around and relax around. 

If you’re around people who are constantly trying to undermine you, you’re going to go insane and you’re probably going to become an absolute jerk. And I think if you meet people in television who are absolute jerks, you can probably surmise from that that they don’t have many people around them who they trust and who they don’t feel like are always trying to undermine them. 

Tucker’s family and his close associates are a huge reason why he is the way he is, and I think why he comes off as so honest and attractive in the sense of being a humorous and welcoming and warm person and also a very fierce and courageous person. That’s a huge part of it. And he’s been with his wife Susie since they were 15 years old. 

They met in boarding school at 15, got married when they were 21. They have really one of the most lovely marriages I’ve ever seen in my life. They are so in love, and it’s so great to see that. I was staying in their home with them. They invited me to stay in their house for a few days during one of the trips, visiting with them. And it was an amazing thing to see. And you can tell it’s very important to him.

Well, you know, there’s that adage behind every great man is a woman. And we do get to meet Mrs. Carlson in the book. Tell us a little bit about her. What kind of lady is she?

Oh, she’s great. She’s beautiful. She’s so warm. She showed me a stack of over 30 date books that she kept, one for every year they were married and every single appointment, and she still handwrites out the date books. She loves reading books. They don’t own televisions in any of their homes. They don’t watch TV at all. She’s never seen the show, but she reads his monologue every night, and he sends it to her before he sends it off to his producers to get her input on it. 

She’s certainly a very devout mother. When they met, her father was the principal of the boarding school. So that was a little nerve wracking for Tucker. There’s some fun stories about how they got along and what her parents thought of him when they first started dating. But she’s just a really warm and gentle person, one of those people that just sort of radiates love when you’re around her, and it’s really nice to see.

And Chadwick, these are very exciting times for you. I’ve been following on Twitter, and you had that event in Washington, DC. You’ve been signing books for people, posing for photos. You even got to hand a copy of the book, which you autographed you signed over to President Donald Trump. So my question is, what are you going to inscribe in Joe Biden’s copy of the book?

(Giggles) You know, I’m glad you asked that so I can start thinking about it. For the copy that I mailed to the White House, I might just tell him to turn to page X when he’s talking about Dr. Jill, maybe. Maybe, I think Joe might want to read that. Tucker certainly had a lot to say about the Biden because he’s known them forever, and I put a lot of that into the book. I saw that Barack Obama just released his summer reading list and we weren’t on it. I don’t know why, but yeah. So I hope that he reads one, too.

This question comes from a viewer of ours, Robert McCready, and he’s @EveningMagic on Twitter. He had a question. He said, what do you miss most about the way your life used to be? And of course, he’s referring to your, you know, you used to be more associated with the left, and now you are definitely not.

Yeah. What do I miss most? I mean, nothing. There’s nothing to miss. I think shortly after my cancellation, there’s probably a period where I really missed my friends, but not anymore. My life has only gotten exponentially better, and I had — this has been a huge week for me. Several milestones this week alone, and no one ever regrets I have a lot of people still reach out to me and they’re like, closet conservatives, and they’re afraid because they live in a liberal place like I do, New York City or somewhere. 

And I’m like, nobody ever regrets standing up for what they believe in. No one ever says, like, wow, I wish I didn’t say what I really thought about the world. Once you do it, it’s extremely liberating. It’s amazing to think about the — I don’t know, I guess sort of like the psychological prison you’re in when you’re on the left. Not just me, but I think most people are where they’re too afraid to stand up or to think outside of any sort of a box, and it turns them into really miserable people. I remember all my friends on the left were really beautiful, really smart, really successful people, and they were all so miserable.

And on the right, you can have people who maybe don’t seem like they have much in life, but they all seem so much more joyous and happy. That’s always been the biggest difference I’ve noticed. So I don’t really think there’s anything to miss. I never regret saying what I think is true and standing up for it and consequences be damned. And as far as I can tell, there haven’t been any negative consequences for it.

That’s good to hear. But, you know,  all of the famous sayings about the truth, all of them are in fact true. The truth will set you free. I mean, all of that. It’s so true.

Yeah, so true. Exactly. Every cliché about the truth turns out to be true.

Has there been a favorite compliment that you’ve gotten about the book so far?

Ohh,I don’t even know, I mean, you’re one of the few people to have actually read it so far, so I’ll be interested to hear your take on it for sure.

That’s kind of flattering in a way, that I would get an early copy.

Well, yeah, of course, yeah.

Was there a moment when you were writing this book, you know, I imagine there was a lot of times of sitting at kitchen tables or traveling on location? Was there a peak moment for you where you thought, this is really interesting?

Yeah, I mean, probably my first. So I’d known Tucker for a while, right? But I hadn’t really spent any real one-on-one time with him. And I guess maybe, I mean, maybe, the first time I went to Maineto see him late last Spring, you know and he just sort of bounded into the room after that night show. And I was just, I don’t know, I  mean I was very struck by his dinner conversation because we not had just sort of casual conversation before that just one phone call and we had texted a few times over the years. 

And I mean, I knew, like, wow, this guy’s fascinating and hilarious, and this is going to be a really fun book. He was telling some crazy stories about Donald Trump that just had everyone in stitches around the dinner table. But I guess, I mean, maybe the biggest moment would be after his Fox show was taken off the air. So we updated the book and I got to interview him twice after the show was taken off the air, added two new chapters. 

But that moment, I think mentally one of the biggest moments thinking about this book was when that happened because I realized that, wow, the Tucker Carlson origin story that’s what we’re calling it didn’t end when he became the highest rated show in cable news history. It ended on April 23^rd, 2023. That’s the crescendo. He came into his own, really, at the Fox News years, and that is when he was kicked off. That’s the end of the origin story. 

Now he’s going on to do something to be something completely else and to be completely unbound. So when I kind of realized that, it was a moment that kind of struck me that that was a significant date. And now it’s chapter two for him, or chapter three maybe.

Did you learn anything about yourself as a result of writing Tucker?

He and Susie really reminded me about what’s important in life. And it meant a lot to me. And those things would be, you know, love the stars and dogs and yeah, I had a moment when I was with them when I realized that I was losing track of that and sight of that because I’m too bogged down in shit that doesn’t matter at the end of the day, work and politics and what have you and drama. So that was certainly something that I’m going to keep with me always and I’m grateful for, and I have kept that with me since then.

Well, Chadwick Moore thank you very much for this interview. I want everybody you have a website, it’s chadwickmore.com, and can also follow you on Twitter: @Chadwick_Moore and then it’s tuckerthebook.com. Is that right?

Yes, that’s right.

I have one final real quick question. When Tucker got whatever you want to call it, released from Fox, there were all these celebrities. Like, I remember Michael Rappaport, if I’m pronouncing his name right, and he made this gloating video and there was a lot of that from the media, the View. My last question is very simple, because he’s a man who is famous for his laugh, will Tucker get the last laugh?

Tucker, if you’ve been following him since that, especially recently, he’s having a great time. I mean, nobody can say he’s not. He’s all laughs and smiles. So I think he’s having the last laugh and will continue to for the foreseeable future, I would imagine.

Well, Chadwick Moore, it’s great to meet you. I didn’t get a Chick-fil-A, but I’m toasting you and I hope to interview you again maybe on the next book.

Oh, I’d love to, Paul. That’d be great. Thanks for having me on…

All right, sir. Have a great week later!

You too.

See ya!